I don't know where to start. I feel horribly incompetent and unprepared to make an informed, confident decision. One of the midwives I work with suggested that I begin by reading the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) policy statement on circumcision.
I just read it over morning coffee, and it overloaded me with information, which I appreciate, but left me nowhere nearer to a clear answer. If AAP can't decide on a clear answer, the outlook is not good for my baby and me.
There are medical risks and benefits to consider, but neither the risks or benefits seem strong enough to sway me either way. There are theoretical considerations, meaning no scientific evidence exists, but logic leads you to wonder. For example, if a baby is born with foreskin, isn't it meant to be there? Could removal of the foreskin diminish sexual sensation later in life?
The above considerations leave me drowning in details. But there is one thing I can at least begin to wrap my mind around—the social implications. Just last night I was watching stand-up on Comedy Central and one of the comedians made a crack at uncircumcised males. Specifically he referred to a "veiny, uncircumcised penis" as something to laugh at.
If he's uncircumcised, will my baby have the self confidence to not be affected by junior high locker-room wise cracks involving such a personal part of his body? Again, this isn't leading me to a clear decision, but it's giving me something to chew on.
I wish the baby could decide for himself. If I don't have him circumcised and he decides he wants to be later in life, it's a more complicated, painful procedure. If he's going to do it, it's best to do it as a newborn. If I have him circumcised, well, there's obviously no going back.
Maybe this isn't as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be? In his usual "don't worry about it" fashion, M votes to have the baby circumcised. The jury is still out with me. What would you do?
Oh dear. I actually have some pretty strong feelings about circumcision. It freaks me out. I can't even imagining someone coming up with the idea to remove a piece of their baby's genitalia. Removed from the cultural acceptance of the practice, it sounds completely bizarre, I think.
ReplyDeleteI decided that I would not circumcise any male children I might have, oh, five or six years ago, and I made Kyle agree to this, and I'm really glad now that it was all hammered out before we got pregnant.
I personally don't think that there are any compelling reasons to circumcise a normal penis. You know what the number one reason given for circumcision is? So the kid will look like his father. I think this is a huge cop out, honestly. First, how often are dad and son sitting around comparing their penises? And second, why is it so hard to explain that daddy had a surgery that was once routine but that now we think might not be so good? Easy. The United States is the only western nation where baby boys are circumcised for non-religious reasons, and I think is also suspicious.
The supposed benefits really don't seem to present a very strong case for me. It's been years since I've done any significant reading on the subject, but just the fact that the studies were done far after the practice was commonplace, looking for justification makes it all seem suspect to me. And the supposed decreased risk of STIs? Well it seems to me that there are far better ways to support that goal.
The risk, though. Even though the chances of a botched circumcision are teeny tiny, the consequences of a mistake are enormous, and I think it is kind if irresponsible to take that risk for something with questionable benefits, or just to go along with what everyone else is doing.
As far as the locker room thing goes, I've never been a teenage boy, but really I think it's a non-issue. Fewer and fewer boys are circumcised every year, so by the time our children are changing in the locker room, unless your kiddo ends up a Jewish school (and even then!), it's super unlikely that he'll be the odd man out. My little corner of the universe is a pretty liberal place, and none of my high school boyfriends were circumcised, and none of them had any angst over it, either. In fact, the first real life circumcised penis I saw was my husband's. I think the social issue is way overhyped.
Um, sorry about all that. I normally avoid this subject because it is so sensitive and come with a lot of baggage for many people. But you asked. Only you and your husband can make this decision, but honestly I think if you are unsure, the default at least should be not to. Because you can't change your mind if you choose to cut.
This is such a tough decision. I'm going through the same thing and my husband is surprisingly indifferent on the issue considering that he's not circumcised, so it's up to me to decide. I'm very sympathetic to the intactivist movement and think they make a lot of good points, especially about the pain and that it's not medically necessary. On the other hand I have a tough time squaring that with my real-world experience. I know several men who had to be, or chose to be, circumcised as teenagers/adults, and a few who wish they had been but are afraid of the pain. Whereas I've never met a man who regrets being circumcised (I know they exist though). The medical benefits, though small, also do seem to be real, so right now I'm leaning toward doing it as the overall less-risky option, but who knows what will end up happening.
ReplyDeleteI have two boys, neither of which are circumcised (they're 3 and 1). I firmly believe that the skin is there for a reason and we weren't interested in having cosmetic surgery done on our children's penises. I don't understand the pain argument. It's just as painful to have it done as an infant as it is when you're a grown man. Unfortunately, the infant can't communicate his pain level well. If my sons want to be circumcised later in life, I'll leave that decision up to them. Who am I to make such a BIG decision for them?
ReplyDeleteGood questions! I was in your exact same place when I was pregnant with my first boy. I finally came to the conclusion that it was "their body, their choice".
ReplyDeletewww.ambermccann.com
It's not an issue for us yet as I'm not pregnant, but my husband and I have discussed it in a hypothetical way. I don't see any reason to do it, and I think most of the time he feels the same. I asked him about the locker-room thing, and he laughed at the idea of guys checking out each others' penises while getting dressed. Apparently that's a huge taboo. Plus, by the time our future kids are in school, I'm pretty sure more and more will be uncircumcised. That seems to be how it's trending. The social pressure to circumcise is enormous, though! (FYI: A friend's college boyfriend had it done when he was 19 or 20 (I can't remember why, but I think it was medical) and it was no sex for at least 6 weeks for him.)
ReplyDeleteHey all -- I'll just throw two cents into the bucket for the sake of a different opinion.
ReplyDeleteWe don't know what we're having but if it's a boy, we are most likely going to have him circumcised. Our reasoning is in line with Rebecca's comment above -- the guys we know who are uncircumcised would choose to have the procedure now but are afraid of the pain. In other words, they wish their parents had made the decision for them as newborns. We don't know anyone who is circumcised and wishes he wasn't. It's a common/simple procedure with very low risks, and our "real life" sampling of people we know has been valuable to us in deciding.
To quote Astrid, "I've never been a teenage boy," so I didn't feel wholly qualified to say whether being uncircumcised will affect our baby socially (if it's a boy). On that front, I've used my husband as a resource because he HAS been a teenage boy, though I did have to press him a bit as he was hesitant to talk about other guys' private parts. And once we had the conversation, he explained his reasoning and I found it to be logical and helpful. So Mel, when M says, "Don't worry about it," maybe there's more to it?
You may say that our decision makes us victims of the "social pressures" Vegan Burnout is referring to, but actually we just tend to fall somewhere in the middle on a lot of the hot button baby-related topics. (By way of example, I am "training" for a natural birth experience as that is my strong preference, but if my baby presents breech and can't be righted with version, I would feel safer having a cesarean than attempting to deliver vaginally, even though I know it can be done. That's just me).
Anyway, all of this is not to say I haven't thought deeply about the matter of circumcision and weighed the pros/cons and -- I have, but this just happens to be where I'm landing. I did try my best to approach the decision with an open mind and I am most certainly not judging others for their choices.
Thanks for all the feedback, ladies. I admire those of you who have strong feelings on the issue. I'll continue exploring this through the rest of my pregnancy. Any suggested reading for me besides the APA statement? I feel like I need to poll more men on the issue and definitely dig deeper with M.
ReplyDeleteCheck out http://www.intactamerica.org and http://www.nocirc.org -- both have a great deal of information on the subject, as well as videos showing the procedure. I was indifferent to this issue as well, until I saw the video, and realized how traumatic this is for an infant. I didn't know that they have to stimulate the penis in order to inject it with local anesthesia -- so essentially it's a boy's first sexual experience. I read more about it, and learned that the foreskin really has an important function. As an infant, the foreskin protects the glans (the head of the penis) and keeps it moisturized; in adulthood, the foreskin -- whih is filled with millions of nerve endings -- aids in lubrication and sensitivity during sexual intercourse.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, though, I think it's an ethical issue. The American Academy of Pediatrics says it's not medically necessary -- which means it's elective, i.e., a matter of personal choice. Since the infant cannot consent, it violates bioethics. Let him decide whether he wants it done, when he comes of age.
Definitely inform yourself. Bravo for asking the question in the first place.
FWIW, I struggled with this before my son was born...so much research and information overload! My husband had always assumed he'd have a hypothetical son circumcised, but I asked him to read some of the stuff I had before making his decision. So he did...and it swayed him enough into uncertainty that we decided against doing it. Every medical professional we encountered throughout pregnancy, labor, and the immediate post-partum period asked if we were getting it done, and we said we weren't sure...and every single one of them said, "Then don't. If you aren't in it 100%, don't." So...we didn't. And I'm pretty confident in our decision. I hope my son doesn't think we made the wrong one, but I reassure myself that if he feels strongly enough that he wants it done, he can pursue that himself (I know, how many guys actually do, but...). If he asks us when he gets older, I'll be honest about why we made the decision we did.
ReplyDeleteOne of the major things that influenced me was researching about the experience of pain the boys have. I remembered a bit from some college psychology classes, so I looked further. There's the school of thought that they don't actuallY "calm down," or the anesthetic doesn't really kick in like it should. When they cease to fuss, it could be an instinctual, primal response to pain that they almost enter a catatonic state. I saw a few video clips that promote this theory (so, admittedly potentially biased, but you can't fake the footage), and I totally saw what they meant. I hated the thought of that. Once he was in my arms, I knew I wouldn't put him through that...whether it would affect him, or would leave an imprint on him, who knows. But I didn't want to take that risk. I asked my (circumcised) brother his thoughts, and so he went online to learn a little more, and he said that after seeing those graphic videos of circumcision, he could never authorize it being done to a child. His quote was, "I'm glad that I'm circumcised, but I wouldn't do it to my own child" (a conflicting message, I know).
I'm always skeptical of statistics (knowing how easily they can be manipulated), but supposedly only 50% of boys born in the U.S. in recent years have been circumcised (and it's much less than that in Europe, which doesn't have much bearing here, but it helped me look outside our own cultural views). So the "locker room" concerns we all have may not be nearly the issue it was when our husbands were that age.
Long response, and I may have repeated what others said, but I just wanted to offer up some of what played into our decision that we wrestled with from the day we found out we were having a boy up until the day he was born. Good luck with your decision!
In my social circle- all our husbands are circumcised and ALL our sons are not. In my childs playgroup all the boys are intact.
ReplyDeleteTimes are changing.
By the time our sons are older, being intact will not be the minority.
I am a son who was circumcised shortly after birth. I do not like being circumcised. I wish my parents had protected me instead of letting them cut off part of my sex organ. Thanks to the Internet, many young men are learning about circumcision. They are rightfully upset that part of their sex organ was cut off without their consent. http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3481
ReplyDeleteHis body, his choice.
The locker room justification of genital cutting is obsolete. The CDC announced last summer that about 2/3 of all baby boys born in 2009 were left intact. That is, 2/3 of baby boys were not circumcised. The new minority in the locker room will be the cut boys.
"But alas, I'm having a boy, and the decision must be made."
ReplyDeleteMaybe if you come to look at it as a non-decision, it'll make this easier.
For instance, is there a decision that 'must be made' with regard to cutting off your child's earlobes? Or the tip of his nose? His fingers?
Of course not! :-)
So if you view your child's intact penis as any other healthy, important, normal, *natural* body part, then it's easy to see why it's a non-decision.
And the fact that it's *his* penis is kind of a big deal too ...
I chose to leave my son intact, and I haven't regretted it for a second. I'm proud that I made a decision that fits in with the informed, peaceful parenting ideal that I strive for. Many of his friends, and even his pediatrician's sons are intact. I like knowing that I left the choice about his body to him. If he decides that he would rather be circumcised when he is older, I will always know that he was given the right to make decisions about his body. Times are changing, and I'm proud to be part of that change.
ReplyDeleteWhat a great blog entry...a question I think *most* parents ask themselves.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to touch on something you said, about it being more difficult and painful later in life. What leads you to believe this? In an adult man, their penis and foreskin have grown to their "full size", so there's not guessing in how much skin is too much to remove. He can also have a say in how tight or lose *he* would prefer his circumcision be. He'd be out for the procedure AND have pain medication afterward, and also would not be sitting in diapers, soiling them while he heals.
Originally, when I was pregnant with my son, I was just afraid they'd cut something off...as in, something they SHOULDN'T. This freaked me out. My husband pulled the "I'm circ'd and I'm fine" card. But, I was still very uneasy. My brother wasn't circumcised. And I had also had sexual partners who were intact as well. They felt fine, they had plenty of self confidence. They got just as lucky as the other guys. So, it can't be THAT big of a pressure...
I asked my brother and his girlfriend for their perspectives. Both were quite happy he was intact. I asked my mother. She said she always felt it was mean but ultimately, he was not circ'd because apparently my father wasn't. I asked my mother in law (who, obviously, circ'd my hubby and is also an L&D nurse), her response was babies don't feel pain (wow...really?) and that it's better for them. When I found out 85%+ of the men in the WORLD were not cut, I begged the question: why do we seem to be the only country with problems with intact penises, if the majority of the world doesn't do it and they are fine?
In the end, we did not do it. My husband is now upset about his own circumcision and working to restore his foreskin.
My son, like most boys, is completely enthralled with his penis.
I have decided that if he ever comes to me upset about the choice we DIDN'T make for him, I will be frank and honest. After all, if my girls came to me and were upset I hadn't performed an elective surgery on them, I'd tell them they were born perfect and didn't need to alter themselves to fit in to society's picture of normal. Same with my son...but also, I would explain WHY I didn't remove a functional and beneficial body part. I will tell him the many benefits he gets to experience that his circ'd peers do not. In the end, it *is* his decision, and if he wishes to have cosmetic surgery, there is nothing I can do but support his choice and educate him on the risks and benefits.
I hope my response helps a little bit, to give you some more perspective. Like you said, only one choice can actually be undone. As much as it WOULD suck to choose you wanted to be circumcised as an adult and the pain of the procedure, at least there IS a choice...what if he grows up to feel like restoringtally, here? Upset and robbed of a part of his body he DIDN'T want taken away from him?
Actually, your son *can* make this choice. When he's an adult. We left our son intact. It's not our choice to make.
ReplyDeleteIt's so easy, let him decide. Should he wish to be circumcised as an adult he can get great anesthesia and follow up pain relief, which infants are largely denied. Plus, as an adult they won't have to rip the fused foreskin from the glans, as it will have separated, and he won't have the surgical wound dressed with pee and poop in his diaper.
ReplyDeleteThe times they are a changin--my 14 month old son is intact, as are most of his peers. The CDC reported that only a third of baby boys born in 2009 were circumcised. So no worries about the locker room :) There's nothing to it, no wound, no extra care. When I change his diaper I wipe it like any other body part.
Babies can die from circumcision complications. It's not medically necessary, and so not worth the chance. Other complications are more common. Google "meatal stenosis" for starters. It happens to up to 10% of circumcised boys and can require additional painful surgery. :(
Do some reading. You won't regret it.
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html
This may be hard for your husband. He may feel a strong need to justify what was done to him by making sure it's done to your son. It may be hard for him to hear that it's not necessary. Whatever your husband's feelings, your son NEEDS you to protect him and his perfect little body. It's your right and obligation. Lots of love to you!
What it has always boiled down to for me is "not my body, not my choice." Just like I would never force my children to pierce their ears, I would never force them into removing a healthy, purposeful body part.
ReplyDeleteMy children, a boy and girl, were born perfect and beautiful. They are the ones who have the final say on cosmetically altering their bodies, and that is when they are old enough to make an informed decision. If my son wants to be circumcised when he is older then I will support him, after I know he has researched the surgery and weighed both sides of the issue.
I am a heavily tattooed and pierced woman, probably more into body modification than most people I know. I have dabbled in scarification and branding and recently I've been looking into tongue splitting. However, I am a grown up lady and I am doing this to my own body, not forcing it on anyone else.
Your gut is telling you not to do it. It's quite obvious. If you're on the fence, lean towards not doing permanent damage to your son's body. I wrote my perspective on this a short time ago on my blog, feel free to check it out:
ReplyDeletehttp://oneyawn.blogspot.com/2011/01/no-cutting-thank-you.html
There is no reason for circumcision. I have two boys and once they popped out of me, I never wanted to let them go. I slept with them and I nursed them until everyone had their fill (2+ years each). I was there for them when they needed me throughout their infancy and toddlerhood. They are now 4 & 6 and I am teaching them the ways of the world by allowing them to spread their wings and learn little lessons along the way. I still look back and wonder how someone could chop off such a precious part of their little bodies. The rates of circumcision come down every year, with good reason. There is no reason for it. Period.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/112410/if-you-regret-circumcising-your-son-s-please-post-here
I really don't have time to read through all the comments so I don't know if someone has already mentioned, should you decide to leave your son intact, please be sure to do some research about protecting him from premature retraction and proper care. drmomma.org has LOTS of great info. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteHi Mama
ReplyDeleteKudos to you for researching and asking about what is a very emotional question for parents to decide on.
I'll share some of my personal experience. 15 years ago I was 17 and pregnant with my 1st child. In my limited experience with the male gender I had only known 1 who was not circumcised. It wasn't different once it was erect and a condom was on, there wasn't a funky smell and as far as I am aware he never had any issues. When I discovered I was having a boy I didn't have access to research nor did I really have anyone to ask. I was able to read what tiny bit of information I could find on what the procedure entailed, which in reality was no information at all. My instinct kicked in and told me there is no reason to perform this on my baby and why in the world would I put him through that kind of pain so soon after being born? It was never even a thought of his body his choice or genital integrity, not back then. Back then it was just about protecting my baby from harm.
I can't explain why I thought it was unnecessary or harmful or painful even, it was just what instinct, my gut, said to me.
Fast Forward 4 years and I am having another son. This time I am married and have to share this decision with my partner. In my opinion there was no decision to make, I was more educated on the matter and absolutely no way was anyone cutting my sons penis! The only argument my husband had was wanting the baby to look like him. I simply asked him if he could recall the last time he compared his penis to his fathers. He said he had never seen his fathers penis and with that answer he conceded to my point of view.
Since then he too has educated himself on circumcision and is wholly against it. He has a son from a previous marriage who was circumcised, and I know my husband did worry about how the boys would feel about their different genitals. Well all 3 of the boys are vastly different in every way possible so why would their genitals be any different? The boys all are educated on the difference and my stepson is disgusted that anyone would have their babies cut at all. He does wish he had been left the heck alone and been able to make that choice for himself.
Over the years the more I have read and more I have educated myself I have become a very passionate intactivist. I do feel very strongly now that the choice should never be up to the parent but rather to the person who the genitals belong to, and that is the child.
The procedure is no more painful nor risky in an adult as it is in a newborn, in fact it is MORE painful and risky in an infant. As an adult they can consent to the procedure and can be given adequate pain relief during and after the procedure, as an infant they cannot.
Lastly the CDC has reported a large decline in hospital circumcisions in 2009 to 32% down from 56% in 2006. The majority of boys are being left intact now and with so much access to information those numbers are going to continue to rise! As for the locker room, kids are no longer showering/getting fully undressed in locker rooms these days. My boys are in sports and PE and have never dealth with anyone pointing at their penis since underwear stays on. Even if they did my boys would put them right in their place ;)
Some more links :)
ReplyDeletehttp://mothering.com/health/the-case-against-circumcision
http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html
http://www.adriancolesberry.com/life/?p=554
http://mothering.com/health/protect-your-uncircumcised-son-expert-medical-advice-parents
Feel free to email me billikengirl(at)gmail (dot) com
~Melissa
If he chooses to do it as an adult, he will not only have the benefit of anesthesia (which infants almost never get, and never anything truly effective), the benefit of full adult penile size (so the doctor knows exactly how much skin is needed to cover his erection), and most importantly, the benefit of potty training (so his gaping, open wound isn't sitting in feces and urine).
ReplyDeletePlenty of circumcised men want to be intact. There is NO intact man anywhere on the planet that truly wants to be circumcised. If he did, he'd do it.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1016016-overview
ReplyDeletehttp://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm
I was in your seat 2 1/2 years ago, going back and forth for a month after he was born trying to make a decision. "If hes meant to have it, he wouldve been born with it" and on the other hand "if hes meant to have it, why are all the males in my family as far as I know circumcised along with every sexual partner except for one"...
ReplyDeleteThen we talked about having it done because his dad is done...except for by the time he would realize theres a difference in details, he would be too old to see his dad naked anyways.
Along with everything we read for and against it, we made a decision to have it done..and for us, it was the worse thing we could have done. He was fine before the procedure, easy to keep clean because you're not supposed to retract anything, then after wards, the dr botched it and in the following weeks, we dealt with a raw, bleeding penis that when touched to apply the vaseline he would scream and scream. There was also the issue of his skin re-adhering to the head again, and when we brought this up to his pediatrician, who is by the way supposed to know better, said "Let me take a look" then without warning grabbed his shaft with one hand and the tip with the other and ripped back the skin off his penis head...
I can't take any of it back, and I would give anything to be able too. The only thing I can do now is not to repeat it for his brothers, and hope that some day, he may forgive us.
The risk of death isn't strong enough to sway you? Over 100 babies die from the procedure each year. And it hurts babies :-( The reason we hear of so many boys needing to be circumcised later is because no one knew the proper care of the intact penis (which is to leave it alone until it retracts on its own, usually around puberty). Most likely, parents were advised to clean under the foreskin, which causes tears in the skin resulting in scar tissue, which makes the foreskin less elastic. Also, pulling back the foreskin before it's ready introduces bacteria, add that to the tears in the skin from ripping the foreskin back and you've got problems. I did not have my son circumcised. I couldn't bear the thought of him experiencing any pain, especially from an elective, cosmetic procedure. My husband is intact and I didn't even know until he told me after we had been together for over a year. Once I found that out, it was no big deal. The rest of the world has no problem with their natural penises. Watching a video is the best education.
ReplyDelete100% of babies oppose circumcision.
ReplyDeleteIn 2009, only 30-something percent of US babies were circumcised. When your baby boy is in the "locker room" situation, he will be in the minority if he is circumcised. The trend is on a major downgrade, because of it's lack of benefits.
I myself have 4 children, 2 boys. We had our first son circumcised under family pressure and true ignorance on our part. This was *after* planning a peaceful home birth for him. In over 8 years of parenting, this is the one and only decision I regret. I watched as my son was circumcised and never before have I witnessed such a torturous act on a human being. Please believe me when I saw, it was horrifying. My baby wouldn't breastfeed after, and fell asleep for hours - not because he was tired like everyone thinks. No, that is a sign of the body going into shock from the trauma.
My second son was born this past April and we chose to keep him intact. I am so thankful everyday that my son got to stay the way he was made - perfectly, no disassembly required!
Best Wishes
Actually, it's over 200 babies that die from circumcision every year. :'-(
ReplyDeleteThat gut feeling you're having? Trust it - there is no reason to harm your newborn son. None. The risks do not outweigh the possible benefits (especially when those 'benefits' wont even be an issue until your child is grown!). I could quote plenty of scientific fact or detail the horrors of the surgery and it's complications, instead I speak to you as a mother with a beautiful, intact toddler who has never once had an issue, as a wife to an intact husband who has never had a single issue and as a close friend to two men who have lifelong complications from their 'routine' circumcisions as newborns that have led to more grief, pain and resentment than I can imagine who were actually brave enough to speak honestly with me about it(imagine how many men feel too shamed to speak up).
ReplyDeleteTrust your gut, keep your son as nature intended him to be. Whole and completely perfect. :)
I have to add(because my inner science geek cannot help it) ... this concept that being intact means more cleaning, more care, more anything is completely false. For at least the first 3 years, and possibly up until puberty, the foreskin does not move because it's function is to protect the internal organ (the glans) until sexual maturity which is the only time exposing that internal organ is necessary - there is no additional cleaning, there is no additional care. It is fused, as a fingernail is to the nail bed, and it's honestly a LOT easier to care for than an open wound in a bacteria filled diaper. The foreskin protects baby boys, it prevents the fecal bacteria that commonly causes UTI from ever getting near the urethra. More recent, accurate studies are showing slightly less instance of UTI in intact boys - the study that people who are pro-circ love to quote that was done in the 80s was debunked (parents were being advise to damage, forcibly rip back and clean under the foreskin which introduced open wounds and bacteria). I only add this because I was "informed" by a friend who is a nurse that it 'must' be done for hygienic reasons - and he genuinely believed this to be true. It could not be further from the truth.
ReplyDeleteFor me, the answers were in understanding how the foreskin physically works and what it's purpose is. Our generation is so unfamiliar with it that we are led to believe it's just some loose skin hanging around, when it really is not. http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/
I chose to leave my boys intact. My biggest reason? Its their body, not mine and I would be in utter hate if my mother had done that to me.
ReplyDeleteOther reasons to consider
over 63% of parents chose to leave their sons intact last year.. I dont think the locker room is going to be an issue
Botched Circs cause MORE deaths per year than SIDS... and look at what a big deal the government makes about that. It only take 2oz of blood loss to kill a baby.. not a risk worth taking IMO
You have a higher risk of infection with the wound than with a properly cared for intact penis
It is actually illegal to circ your son. As the law states that it is illegal to circ a female, it does not mention males.. but the law does state that the law will not discriminate between male and female. Thus.. it is illegal. There are already cases of sons sueing their parents for Circing them.. all have won. It may not be common at the moment.. but as this becme more common of an issue.. Im sure the sats will rise.
Then there is the issue of sex. It is proven that there is a link between circing and erectile disfunction, loss of sensitivity, early ejection. I dont need my son blaming me for any of that! LOL.
Lastly.. it can always be done.. but never un-done. As an adult.. he can choose to do it, and revcieve medication to be asleep.. as a child.. they may can medicate.. but rarely do.. and if they do.. that brings about its own set of problems and risks.
The Mothering.com discussion forums have a great forum devoted to resources about circumcision.
ReplyDeleteBottom line: it is not ethical or beneficial to remove a healthy, functional body part without the owner's consent.
People who "had" to be -- sometimes issues arise, and for a long time the only thing doctors in our circumcision-happy culture knew to do was just amputate it (rather than treat it.) Most often the issues have been iatrogenic (echoing what Mariah said.)
People who "wanted" to be -- well, there has been for a long time a strong bias in our culture against intact men. It was "dirty", "ugly", etc. They grow up ashamed, there was nowhere to affirm the normality of their sexuality. With education, though, that's changing, though, and fast.
I love my husband more than anything, and we have a great sex life. But I'm sad that his lack of a foreskin will increasingly negatively affect our sex life as we grow older. It's supposed to be there, for a very good reason. (Google 'sexual function of foreskin'.)
Mama, save your son. He comes into the world perfect and beautiful -- there is nothing on his person that requires 'fixing'.
ReplyDeleteWhen we found out we were having a boy, I asked my husband (who is cut) how he felt about circumcision. At the time I hadn't done much research and had no real opinion either way, but he told me we would have our son circumcised over his dead body. I was shocked at how forcefully he stated his position -- my gentle, articulate husband could barely get the words out, the emotion was so raw and terrible. He wishes all the time that it hadn't been done to him (and as a woman who has had both circumcised and uncircumcised partners, I really wish that as well).
When I met my son, I felt such a wave of relief that I wouldn't have to argue to protect this little being who I would lie down and die for rather than allow anyone to cause him unnecessary pain. The thought of allowing (paying!) someone to do a cosmetic surgery on his perfect person made me feel sick to my stomach.
I would recommend watching some circumcision videos on youtube and see if you are still on the fence about it.
There is also a great read here: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/09/knowing-better.html
If I didn't have my husband's opinion, if I didn't care about the risk of death or my tiny son's pain, I would still care that my daughter, were I to have one, would be protected from this same surgery by the full force of the law.
If someone cut my daughter, I would kill them. My son deserves my same protection.
As a certified pediatric nurse and a mother of seven... three of them intact boys, count me firmly in the "it's there for a PURPOSE" camp. My husband is also intact, as circumcision has almost completely vanished from the scene in England, where he was born (except for those done for religious purposes among the Jewish and Muslim communities there).
ReplyDeleteEveryone has given you EXCELLENT advice. I am currently working as the sole pediatric specialist in a small rural hospital in northern Idaho. This means that a large number of my patients are elderly men. What I have found is that 90% of them are intact and have NO problems whatsoever. The men their sons' ages, however, are almost 100% circumcised! We live in a VERY small community and when I inquired further, apparently when "modern" medicine came here, the mothers were all encouraged to be "modern" and "scientific" and to provide their children with myriad "proven benefits" of circumcision.
There are no truly proven "benefits" to circumcision. A lot of supposition and poorly designed "studies".... but no valid reasons.
Congratulations on the impending birth of your son. Take a very good look at the little man when he is born and you will realize that he came in to the world absolutely perfect... all you have to *do* is leave him that way.
"Circumcising our first son is by far the thing I regret the most. Our
ReplyDeletesecond son is intact. Please look into the issue as much as you can
before your little one arrives. Our story is here in case you'd like
to read it or contact me. I'm happy to share more of our experience
with both a circumcised and intact son.
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/09/knowing-better.html "
But he CAN decide when he's older! Contrary to popular belief, it's not more painful as an adult - it only seems more complicated as adults demand proper pain relief, as well they should. Often, neonatal circumcision is done without pain relief - and even in cases when parents are told it will be used, if they're not there they cannot be sure that it was given time to take effect or even used.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if he decides when he's older he's:
-Not at risk of fatal haemmorrhage
-Not at risk of fatal infection
-Not at risk of glans amputation, degloving or adhesions and skin bridges.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html
Plus, it's then HIS decision :-)
Any surgery - and this IS cosmetic surgery is easier on an adult and has fewer complications, and the complications are less serious. The reality is though - in a non-circumcising country, which the USA is fast becoming with a neonatal circumcision rate of 33% (and falling) in 2009, it is incredibly rare for an intact man to want to be without his foreskin. The foreskin has a much bigger part to play in sexual intercourse than the labia minora, and it's illegal to trim these on a baby girl.
Some common myths:
ReplyDelete- It's easier to keep clean.
It's NOT. An intact penis should only ever be wiped gently like a finger - http://www.fathermag.com/health/boy-care/boy-care.shtml A circumcised newborn's penis is an open wound sitting in excrement. Often, the glans (which is raw where the adhered foreskin has been torn away) begins to heal onto the skin of the penile shaft, resulting in skin bridges: http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm This is a comparison between cut and intact newborn boys: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/cut-vs-intact-outcome-statistics.html
I'll add to that to say that it's also NOT cleaner in adulthood. Around half my partners have been intact and half circumcised. I've never had a smelly intact partner (except a smoker, who smelled like smoke) but I have had smelly circumcised partners. In intact men, the skin hangs freely over the glans. In circumcised men, it bunches behind the coronal ridge, making sweaty folds. I had a partner who found it very hard to stop these folds from stinking of sweat. Cleaning under the foreskin takes the adult man less time than it does for a woman to keep her vulva clean.
-It reduces his risk of HIV
Highly questionable. The studies in Africa were very poorly conducted and controlled for, only showed any benefit for female-male transmission (most sexual transmission in the USA is homosexual) and one study was abandoned when a similar INCREASE in transmission to women was shown. In any case, 60% was the supposed reduction, when the risk can be virtually eliminated with condom use. Any vaccine trial showing a reduction of 60% would be abandoned. More here: http://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/full/10.2217/17469600.2.3.193
-It reduces his risk of UTIs
False. Circumcision commonly causes meatal stenosis in boys, or narrowing of the urinary tract. It is virtually unheard of in intact boys. For this reason, and because the foreskin is no longer protecting the glans and urethra, it may increase his risk of urinary tract infections. In any case, UTIs are rare in boys - even more so after the first 12 months - and can be treated with antibiotics. More on UTIs: http://www.circumstitions.com/Utis.html
- It reduces his risk of STDs
Highly questionable. Other studies have shown no difference or an increase in STD transmission among circumcised men - who may be less likely to use condoms as they already have reduced sensation. In any case - newborns aren't sexually active! This is one he can decide when he's older. http://www.circumstitions.com/STDs.html
- It reduces his risk of penile cancer
Really? Penile cancer is *exceedingly* rare. Rarer than male breast cancer - and we don't remove boys' breast buds at birth, even though they're far less useful to them. In the UK, where the vast majority of the population is intact, penile cancer is about half as common as vulval cancer. I don't know of anyone with vulval cancer. Having less penis may reduce your risk of getting cancer - on tissue you no longer have - but circumcised men can still get penile cancer on the circumcision scar. The best way to reduce his risk of penile cancer? Teach him about the importance of condoms and not smoking. http://www.circumstitions.com/Cancer.html
- Most men are circumcised
False. Around 80% of the world is intact: http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html
- Male circumcision is very different to female circumcision, which is to stop women from enjoying sex
False. Circumcision in the USA was popularised to curb masturbation. 'Hygiene' and 'medical reasons' were proposed long after it took hold, to justify a practice that should have died out with the quaint society that bore it: http://www.veoh.com/collection/Circumcision/watch/v1028772JgXD37Sy#watch%3Dv1134639X63btBHB
- My religion requires it!
ReplyDeleteReally? If we ignore the fact that your newborn son hasn't yet decided on his religion, then..
*Christianity - The covenant of Abraham was done away with in Jesus. There are numerous quotes in the New Testament denouncing circumcision. If you are Christian you should NOT be circumcising for religious reasons. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/circumcision.html, http://www.noharmm.org/christianparent.htm & http://www.noharmm.org/huswife.htm
*Judaism - While this is a traditional Jewish ritual, many devout Jews are some of the strongest voices against circumcision, and Brit Shalom (Covenant of Peace) and Brit B'li Milah (Covenant without Cutting) are gaining in popularity. http://www.jewishcircumcision.org & http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org
*Muslim - Circumcision is not mentioned anywhere in the Qu'ran. Many Muslims are also vocal against circumcision. In the Qu'ran it says: "He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, designed you and perfected your design." and Satan is quoted as saying "I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to mark the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of GOD." http://www.circumstitions.com/Islam.html & http://wapedia.mobi/en/Khitan_%28circumcision%29
In any case, modern American circumcision is considerably different from any circumcision practiced in antiquity - and by different, I don't mean 'better': http://www.drmomma.org/2010/07/biblical-circumcision-information.html
- He'll need it done later in life anyway
False. Very few men ever need to be circumcised - although in the USA, where care of the intact penis is not well understood and (circumcised) doctors see the foreskin as a worthless extra, circumcision is over-prescribed. You can drastically reduce the risk of foreskin problems by not retracting or letting anyone else - including medical professionals - retract your infant son's foreskin. This can cause infection and adhesions which lead to problems later on. Remember - intact? Don't retract. Only clean what is seen.
- It's just a snip!
ReplyDeleteFalse. In adult males, the foreskin has separated from the glans. In infants, it must be torn away from the glans first - yes, even with the Plastibell procedure, which DOES involve cutting. Circumstraints are bolted to a bench and the infant is firmly strapped in place. You don't have to do this for a heel prick. Videos made by and for medical professionals: Gomco - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXVFFI76ff0&has_verified=1 & Plastibell - http://www.drmomma.org/2009/08/plastibell-infant-circumcision.html
- His future wife will thank me!
Really? I found it hard not to harbour resentment towards my former partner's mother once I realised that it wasn't normal to need buckets of lube. Much as my circumcised partners tried, I realised that sex - sex that was pleasurable to me, at least - didn't come naturally and was something they really had to work at. I found out what it meant to 'lie back and think of England'. This is what sex is supposed to be like - be aware that it IS explicit: http://www.foreskinfunctions.com It took me years to discover that.
- It's just a flap of skin!
A flap? Really? Have you SEEN one? It's a highly sensitive sleeve of skin, which is all part of the skin on the shaft. The only person who makes the arbitrary decision about what is foreskin and what is shaft skin, and how much penis your son gets to keep, is a guy with a knife. You'd better hope he got enough sleep the night before: http://www.circumstitions.com/Notjustaflap.html This is one in action: http://secretpenis.com/erection.swf Here are more: http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Gallery1.html Don't miss the Brazilian on page 9, he's quite a honey ;-)
- But it LOOKS better!
Highly subjective. In non-circumcising cultures, such as that in the UK - and which the USA is fast becoming - schoolgirls mock circumcised boys. When I see a dry, scarred penis, one that was altered without the permission of the owner, I feel sad. I feel angry. I have to put all that out of my mind before I can feel aroused. Seeing a moist glans emerging from its sheath? That's arousing. But I'll keep this a family show, and leave it to Breezy: http://womanuncensored.blogspot.com/2010/02/foreskin-in-bedroom-one-womans-love.html
- But... but.. he'll get TEASED!
Really? So, your son, one of a growing majority of intact boys will get teased for having TOO MUCH PENIS? My partner is intact, of a generation when circumcision was in the process of dying out for good here. He can't remember anyone looking at his member, and couldn't tell you whether his mates were cut or not. He assures me that anyone teasing an intact guy for his wang has a much bigger problem - that dude is GAY! My man's no homophobe, but he'd not have had a second thought about calling out a guy as gay who checked out his junk and was rude enough to comment on it.
Anyway, this guy grew up as the only intact guy at his school, and he loves his penis so much the way it is that he became a stripper: http://www.drmomma.org/2009/12/circumcision-information-take-3.html (Not that circumcision will PREVENT your son from becoming a stripper).
These guys, on the other hand, were circumcised guys amongst other circumcised guys, and they're NOT so happy: http://www.circumstitions.com/Resent.html & http://www.sueeasy.com/class_action_detail.php?case_id=258
I'll let Penn & Teller have the last word on this, because they're right - my entire post could be succinctly replaced with 'Circumcision is bullshit!': http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=416_1218124584
these responses are so well written that there is almost nothing for me to add, except that when my nephew was in my custody, no matter how clean i kept his newly circumcised penis he still developed pus filled blisters on his penis and groin. the diaper still adhesed to his penis despite the vaseline. My two sons are intact, and never have i dealt with any negative penis issues. I have a friend whose son has disappearing penis syndrome and another whose 5 year old still can't urinate correctly and has to have frequent urology visits, and will soon have to have a second penile surgery. Both boys damaged because of an elective procedure. let him choose, my husband wishes his mom would have left his penis alone.
ReplyDeleteI am an intact American male and have been married for over 20 years.
ReplyDeleteI grew up very self conscious, but only because my parents told me nothing foreskin positive. They said nothing because at that time, there was absolutely nothing foreskin positive in print. After I turned 40 and several years into my marriage, I began to read about how circ destroys the most sensitive parts of the male body. About how the moving foreskin facilitates foreplay and improves intercourse.
The internet made it possible for women to talk about their sexual experiences behind a veil of anonymity. I was astounded at the number of American women free spirits who said that they preferred intercourse with an intact man. Intact facilitates manual foreplay and reduces the need for fellatio. The foreskin interacts nicely with male precum, and keeps the glans moist and smooth. The main sexual drawback of the intact penis is that it is not what many of us adult Americans expect to see. That said, intact and cut penises look almost exactly the same when both are erect, and I submit that only erect is relevant to the sexual experience.
If we are going to circumcise, we should do careful research on the possible adverse consequences of circumcision for sexual pleasure and functionality. Such research has yet to be undertaken, and for that reason alone, American routine infant circumcision is unconscionable.
Circumcision is not necessarily a sexual disaster, especially before 40 years of age. But there is a growing awareness that the natural penis makes for better sex. I and my wife are very fortunate that my mother refused to conform to American expectations and instead let me keep all the tender moving parts Mother Nature saw fit to give me.
85% of the male population, world-wide is intact.
ReplyDeleteThe reason it continues in the U.S. is money. The doctors get reimbursed for procedure and the hospitals sell the foreskins to biopharaceutical and cosemtic companies for about $3,000/square foot.
This is not something most people are aware of and usually, the person advising parents whether or not to circ or not is either the OB or the pediatrician, and they are the ones who usually stand to make a profit from it.
Please don't let someone strap your perfect baby boy to a board and cut off his healthy and functioning foreskin. The glans of the penis isn't meant to be without protection anymore than our clitoris is meant to be without a clitoral hood.
http://www.thewholenetwork.org/the-library.html
I just wrote a HUGE comment about this and then blogspot ate it. So let me summarize.
ReplyDelete1. It's not your choice to make. It's not your partner's choice to make. It's your son's penis and your SON'S choice whether he wants it done as it's cosmetic surgery and far from life or death. You wouldn't cut off your daughter's breast tissue at birth to save her from breast cancer (something that about 25% of women will look forward to), so why would you cut off a foreskin when the potential benefit is far less?
2. Check out these statistics for circumcision rates in different part of the country: http://www.mgmbill.org/statistics.htm Although it does vary from state to state, it is clear that your son will NOT be the only one in the locker room who is whole. Additionally, if your son had a big nose -- would you get him a nose job at birth to save him from teasing there? I doubt it, and I certainly hope not. Educate your son about why you left him intact. Tell him about the things that may be said to him. If he's instilled with confidence early, it can make a world of difference.
3. Circumcision is NOT more painful as an adult. However, adults are put under general anesthesia for the surgery and receive pain management afterward. Infants are strapped down and conscious for their surgeries. They are sometimes, though not always given some kind of local anesthetic. Many times what anesthetic is given is not sufficient. They are also unable to receive pain management after the fact and are left with an open, bleeding wound in their diaper exposed to urine and fecal matter. How fun. Also, infants DO feel pain. My son had his PKU heel stick at 4 days old and screamed his face off. I can't imagine how he would feel if he were having part of his penis ripped and cut.
Bottom line... parents need to protect their sons. They can't do it themselves. Allow your son the CHOICE when he's an adult. His body, his choice. Best wishes with your son.
-Jen
Mother of 2 intact children, a 6 year old daughter and a 4 month old son
Dear Melissa- I'd like to invite you to visit my blog http://thefrontporchswing.blogspot.com to read some posts I wrote for Genital Integrity Awareness Week. They extrapolate key issues you brought up here- like hygiene, maternal empowerment, the meme of adult circumcision being worse, as well as the tricky issue of deferring to a circumcised mate who may lack the objectivity to approach the issue of normal male anatomy being just that- normal. I also am a knitter and if you care to peek into the archives- you might enjoy looking at some of my knitting. I see that you are also a yoga enthusiast and you may be interested in this article about the cobra pose: http://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=130
ReplyDeleteI will focus my comments here on the fact that you did not feel you got much guidance from reading the AAP circumcision policy statement. This is no surprise. The statement purposely avoids and confuses key issues because the AAP is composed of a membership who profit in perpetuating this cultural service. If the AAP was to come out truthfully about the harm of the surgery or the value of the lost body part- it would be a scathing condemnation of it's members who are currently participating in sexually maiming male children. The AAP can not afford to be truthful and risk providing ammunition against it's circumcising membership in lawsuits.
I ask you to revisit the statement and consider the equation they direct you to use to base your decision- to weigh the benefits of circumcision against the risks of the surgery. By parsing the question in this way they are offering you confusion which results in you thinking this is nothing more than a gamble that your child will not suffer an adverse surgical outcome. The true equation must weigh both the risks and benefits of the surgery against the value of the anatomy lost in every case. In the second scenario we learn that even if a perfect surgical outcome is achieved a wonderful body part will be lost. For an eye opening look at what a honest statement from a medical association would be, I offer this from Canada: http://www.infocirc.org/saskmemo.htm
Now, back to the AAP. If you go to the section on risks, they state that the incidence of these problems is UNKNOWN... they go on to estimate a very tiny percentage, less than half of one percent of circumcisions resulting in one of the laundry list of possible issues, they list twenty problems by name. One of these is MEATAL STENOSIS. google it. You will find out that meatal stenosis is directly caused by the state of being circumcised and it happens to about 9% of circumcised males. what.the.heck.? How can you fit 9% of circumcised males into half of one percent of circumcisions and have any room left over for the children suffering from the 19 other named complications? (you will need a strong stomach to google necrotizing fasciitis + circumcision) I have been asking this question since the AAP came out with this statement and have yet to receive an answer.
I had just written a long reply, denied as being too large and then deleted. This is a superb site to research: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html, filled with articles, recommended books, and links to other websites, such as this one: http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to be briefer this time. I have 3 intact sons and a circumcised husband. Although he initially thought our eldest should be circumcised so he wouldn't feel "different," he now is very upset that he has been circumcised and plans to begin the long restoration process in an effort to regain some sensitivity and hopefully stave off impotency, a very common result of circumcision when men get older.
The pain is far worse for an infant to be circumcised than an adult as there is no way to put them to sleep for the amputation, and they have hyper sensitive pain receptors. Many are done with no pain relief at all, and any pain medicine that may be given is very inadequate. They just can't talk to tell us how bad it hurts. They can only scream. Be sure to watch a circumcision video with the sound on.
Would you want to strapped down and have your clitoris cut off? The male foreskin is the same sexually as the female clitoris, both the richest source of genital nerves. Would you be upset if you had been circumcised as a baby? I would be, and I totally understand my husband being upset. Are you willing to have part of your son's perfect, healthy penis amputated because he may some day be teased? Do you think he will think you made the right decision? My in-laws weren't asked as it was automatically done to all baby boys 40 years ago, so my husband can't blame them. He just asked me the other day though if I thought he could sue the doctor that circumcised him.
I just went and read your comments and wanted to add that I do some volunteer work with young children and have to help change diapers and take them to the bathroom. I recently saw two different two year old boys with practically no penis left! They were circumcised. I have a son the same age, and I was shocked at how little of anything these boys have. I am always disturbed to see circumcised boys as it looks so wrong and I know what they endured, but this was horrific. Circumcision removes 1/3 to 3/4 of the newborn penis, and apparently these boys are among the more unfortunate ones.
ReplyDeleteI'll be simple and to the point. First son circumcised and had bad penile adhesions. He bleed pretty bad, when the doctors detached the adhesions... So bad he Soaked up his diaper quick. He ended up being fine and didn't loose too much blood the required transfusion... But man what a scare.. Complications are real and no child is a gaurantee, trust me my family knows. My second son is intact and has not had one issue. But like others have said keeping your son intact in the US involves sometimes educating doctors on NOT retracting your sons foreskin(especially older generation ones). I have three friends whose baby's have had complications as well. These aren't women I met online in some anti circ chat group... These are real people I know. I have also met one LAN in re life who hates that he is circumcised. I also have talked with men online that hat their circ status, so they are out there.
ReplyDeleteFor the love of God please do NOT do this to your son. Cutting somebody's genitals is the worst thing you can do to a person. Irreversible physical and psychological damage. It's sexual mutilation, it's RAPE, and the consequences are life long. Wake up! Snap out of it!
ReplyDeleteThanks everyone for your feedback. I appreciate the civility and genuine helpfulness of the majority of these comments. I'll respond with a follow up post as soon as I find the time to articulate my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteJust wondering how the decision is going...
ReplyDeleteHoney